tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-977400976507800225.post2397881713996298875..comments2017-09-24T06:56:54.944-07:00Comments on The Science of Horse Training: The Curious Case of Richard Dutrow: Conditioning Genius or Drug Cheat?Billhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01925835645395247607noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-977400976507800225.post-83255880769272434632012-03-02T00:27:58.071-08:002012-03-02T00:27:58.071-08:00Bill,
Further to this interesting discusiion, hav...Bill,<br /><br />Further to this interesting discusiion, have a look at pp 156 - 162 [racinghorsesbook.com]. I'm afraid one has to read it a couple of times to get the idea quite straight, but it did seem to work [see "Does it work?" section at front of site].<br /><br />AS far as "Winning Trainers" is concerned i thought that by far the most interesting washarness trainer Fred Kersley - and in fact he has since had great success with runners.Bill O'Gormannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-977400976507800225.post-19673237029774955202011-03-01T09:02:01.682-08:002011-03-01T09:02:01.682-08:00Louisa-
Tracking back to find the start of the &#...Louisa-<br /><br />Tracking back to find the start of the 'less is more' philosophy has led me to pin most of it on Lukas and his staff of minions. Quarter horse trainer brings quarter horse methods to thoroughbreds, for better or worse. <br /><br />To confuse matters, this was also around the time of the 'supertrainer' who no longer trains for sport, but for economics. He wins simply because he has more owners, more stock, and more margin for error - not because of superior conditioning.<br /><br />All trainers are terrified when working horses like Uncle Mo, and I can't blame them. If you have 50 2yo's a year, and 25 get hurt when you only work them minimally, it sure as hell is hard to convince them to work more often, instead of less. <br /><br />Besides, there is no objective data being used, it's all subjective opinion, which makes it even more common to proceed with an overabundance of caution. However, too cautious leads to a higher risk of injury. <br /><br />Horses get hurt, it's a fact of life, but all sound ones will benefit from a blowout. It won't make them all world-beaters, but it will improve them by a few lengths. <br /><br />Now, if you are a claiming trainer and yours are all compromised somewhat, that is a different story. <br /><br />P.S. Lukas was quoted in a book called 'Winning Trainers' that he never worked horses, and never sent them fast. But look at the PPs now, and with less monied owners to work with, ol' DWL has changed his ways a bit. Good for him.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01925835645395247607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-977400976507800225.post-55544945298466036022011-03-01T07:22:55.488-08:002011-03-01T07:22:55.488-08:00Bill! I was just reading a Seattle Slew biography,...Bill! I was just reading a Seattle Slew biography, and he also did a 3f blowout (in 34.4 the day before the Derby) before each of the Triple Crown races.<br /><br />I'm still trying to dig up when the "less is more" style of training started, and I found an interesting quote from Billy Turner on Frank Whiteley training Ruffian. Because, aside from these pre-race blowouts, Slew was much more lightly-raced than his contemporaries (the Derby was Slew's 7th race, For the Moment's 13th, and Run Dusty Run's 15th).<br /><br />Billy Turner on training Slew (just before the March 26, 1977 Flamingo):<br />"We don't have a precise work schedule for this horse. We send him out early, but what he does depends on how he acts, how much control the boy seems to have of him. I've only worked him 15 times and never more than three-quarters. [Slew's 1st lifetime breeze was in June 1976.] He always wants to do too much. You're always hoping for something less. I hate to send him out with a pony in the afternoons, but there's the fear he'll run off.<br />"I always hoped to have a good horse, and I studied Ruffian so that when and if I did get a runner, I'd be able to make the right decision once in a while. I think Frank Whiteley was terrified every time he worked her. She was a whirlwind. He'd have Dave on a pony 3/16 down from the wire, and a pony boy a quarter-mile down, just in case the boy couldn't get her pulled up. I think Ruffian accomplished more off less work than any horse I ever saw. She was so free running, just a beautiful filly. I guess there is a parallel with Slew. He's so strong it scares you."Louisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13447439340767588618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-977400976507800225.post-43028422092415465802011-02-28T17:32:45.361-08:002011-02-28T17:32:45.361-08:00hey, i just stumbled on here. nice job!hey, i just stumbled on here. nice job!rather rapidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07517841195715154873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-977400976507800225.post-69128531927310821262011-02-28T11:58:13.361-08:002011-02-28T11:58:13.361-08:00Thank you kimmeastar-
The great minds of this ind...Thank you kimmeastar-<br /><br />The great minds of this industry will tell us you cannot do that today because horses are so much more fragile, but trainers of the 1940's were complaining of the same thing!-<br /><br />One day, a quality outfit with a quality 2 year old will take heed and give us our next Triple Crown champ, winning the Derby in sub 2:00 to boot.<br /><br />IMO, this will only happen for an organization that treats horseracing as a sport, not a business. May be the year 2111, but it will happen.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01925835645395247607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-977400976507800225.post-6999744600465665402011-02-28T11:31:42.227-08:002011-02-28T11:31:42.227-08:00Bill
Funny you mention all this.This technique was...Bill<br />Funny you mention all this.This technique was one practiced exclusively by Mr. Lucien Lauren.Look at some of Secretariats blowouts the day before.Most were 3f in :34 or 5f in 57.You are correct,in my opinion.Trainers in the old days did it right.bubbahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05758911832609624491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-977400976507800225.post-54307918231931815952011-02-28T08:55:26.064-08:002011-02-28T08:55:26.064-08:00Just in case Anon doesn't make it back here, I...Just in case Anon doesn't make it back here, I think I have his answer for him. <br /><br />If I tell a trainer to do something like a blowout for a horse, and the horse doesn't run well - he'll never try it again. And he'll often tell anyone who listens that I don't know what I am talking about. <br /><br />Too often if someone like me can't turn a cheap horse into a star next time out, my methods get criticized as being 'junk'.<br /><br />The first commenter had it right; many run better, none run worse after a spleen dumping blowout.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01925835645395247607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-977400976507800225.post-40372791652653239992011-02-28T07:58:36.703-08:002011-02-28T07:58:36.703-08:00Interesting and informative... very nice work!Interesting and informative... very nice work!UpInClass Horse Racing Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13634935142698829110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-977400976507800225.post-80286125001166056562011-02-28T05:52:40.331-08:002011-02-28T05:52:40.331-08:00Anon-
Thanks for the feedback. Can you please ela...Anon-<br /><br />Thanks for the feedback. Can you please elaborate on which type of horse cannot be blown out? I have had even cheap horses benefit with a 2F blowout 3 days prior to a race. I did specify above such a horse must be sound. <br /><br />Again, I hear your point often but I don't often get any real life examples to learn from. <br /><br />IMO, the training of horses is very much an art, but the conditioning is quite a bit of science. I feel many put too much emphasis on the art and too little on the science - a mix of each is best. <br /><br />'art' is subjective opinions formed over time and very useful, 'science' is objective data collected during exercise that can provide a different perspective.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01925835645395247607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-977400976507800225.post-19310627844683667022011-02-28T04:00:54.257-08:002011-02-28T04:00:54.257-08:00No all horses are not trained the same.What may lo...No all horses are not trained the same.What may look to you on paper as similar training schedules are not.Each horse reacts differently to the distance and time of their workouts. Horse dumping their spleen as we call it is a well known fitness factor that can't always be done close to a race with every horse.<br />Training horse on paper is much easier than real life.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-977400976507800225.post-34169646479774753072011-02-27T23:20:20.749-08:002011-02-27T23:20:20.749-08:00Different Beyers for T Man and Flashpoint, but sam...Different Beyers for T Man and Flashpoint, but same Sheets fig from debut, i understand. <br /><br />Interesting post, in any case.marcus hershnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-977400976507800225.post-1295303624169331572011-02-27T06:27:54.794-08:002011-02-27T06:27:54.794-08:00Anonymous comment emailed to me from standardbred ...Anonymous comment emailed to me from standardbred trainer:<br /><br />Twenty five years ago I required all my horses to score down after the post parade at a 15 second 1/8 mile. 3 of every 4 that did this performed better. <br /><br />Some, maybe the same, but none worse.<br /><br />Perhaps some horses didnt dump their spleens so sometimes I asked my drivers to score down twice to make sure the spleen dumped.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01925835645395247607noreply@blogger.com